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Warren Lightcraft

(15 posts) (9 voices)

Started 8 years ago by Iszatarock
Latest reply from Patowatomie

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Iszatarock
Member

Self righting difficulties may eliminate the H16 from my options to find a fast, single-handed boat for EC. A trimaran built with H16 hulls (or some other cat hulls) as amas might work. But the Tridarka Raider taught me that lighter is better.

The Weta is fun, but a little too frisky for distance racing. Plus, their strength leaves a little to be desired from what I've hear.

The Hobie AI is wonderfully easy. But I don't like the idea of sitting in a puddle for more than a couple hours at a time.

You creative guys with the custom boats are too cool. But I'll be too old to sail by the time I get one built.

I found out about the Warren Light Craft boat, Little Wing 15.5 last night. http://www.warrenlightcraft.com/specs15sail.html. Boy, carbon fiber and 68 lbs! I love that. Don't love spending $9,000 much. But, at least, I'd also have a nice kayak for those windless days in Colorado.

Looks like a boat that should have been used for an EC, but I haven't seen one in the last few years. Anybody have any opinions to share on it?

(Sure, also share your opinions on my opinionated views above, if you want!)

IsZataRock

Posted 8 years ago #
Chekika
Member

I believe one was brought to Ft Desoto a year ago or so, but didn't get out of the starting gate. The owner was very unhappy with it and was trying to sell it on the spot.

Keith

Posted 8 years ago #
maddave440
Member

Hi Watertribe,

I have never heard of any owner bragging about the upwind performance of a Hobie 16. It has to much sail and the roller reefing is handy but not the best way to get the most performance of a sail. BSD will be offering a hardshell ama in the near future. It will give everyone a choice of which kayak or hull they wish to convert to a tri.

Maddave

Posted 8 years ago #
SOS
Member

Hey Izatarock,

Thought I would chime in as I had the opportunity to sail that green warren light craft tri that same year in key largo. Although I was in only moderate wind and chop I found it seriously lacked volume forward and I submarined my way back and forth. I was only out for a short ride in a bathing suit and did not have a sprayskirt so i filled the cockpit to the rim in about 3 minutes. At 68 lbs it is seriously light and with a decent sized rig but a bit misproportioned to my eye. It's not an easy problem to solve. The kayak wants the person in the middle, but the sailboat says Hey get that person out of the way, i need to go there!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTYSleXDAgII believe the owner broke off one of his ama keels in the surf the day before the race start during a practice sail.

I noticed in this video that it is also slow to tack and the skipper backed the jib to get her to come about. That indicates to me that in higher winds when the jib is perhaps furled/reefed and the main is reduced, tacking will be something only possible with paddle in hand. Nothing wrong with that though it is a kayak afterall. I do wonder though how the same trial would look with a watertribe gear load onboard....hmmm. Nothing against the boat just my opinions. the rigging was well laid out as I remember and it certainly was happy to get up and go get you wet.

Posted 8 years ago #
Macatawa
Member

The LittleWing was sort of at the start of EC2010. Aftermath blog post here:

http://komoniwannashoya.blogspot.com/2010/03/lets-get-started.html

It does seem like a good concept, but maybe too fragile?

Posted 8 years ago #
JollyRoger
Member

Iszatarock, Firstly nice meeting you at EC2012 while you were setting up at the boat ramp.

Have you looked into the Triak? The boat was waved off at first but in 2010 had a makeover by M $ M - Morrelli & Melvin and it apears to be a more serious boat now.

Cleanslate has a nice watertribe blog about his and is signed up for the NCC.

Triak's site is broken as of this morning but here is a review. http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=2919

There was one at the start line in 2011 to do the marathon and owned by an older gentleman. Not sure what happened but we did take a beating that first day. As seems to be the norm!

May be worth looking into and is much more reasonably priced than the Warren., almost half. but still not cheap. It would be interesting to hear some watertribers take on it now with the upgrades.

JollyRoger

Posted 8 years ago #
CleanSlate
Member

You can look at my blog on this site to see some information on the Triak. I've taken it out now for about 10 small trips and it has performed well. I will take it out for my first longer trip early in June (crossing the Chesapeake bay) and camping out. That trip will better test it's ability. I was out on it today in almost no wind and ended up mainly paddling (which it does well). The deck is a little busy with lots of control lines and it takes a bit of practice to work them all properly. With roller furling reefing, you can reef it down as far as you need to. I haven't tried a flip test yet.

Posted 8 years ago #
Iszatarock
Member

Thanks for the feedback, you guys.

Now that I've knocked a bit more of the rust off my brain, I'm thinking that I've confused the Weta with Warren boat. A nice guy who broke his boat the day before the race let me sail it in Key Largo. Could have been I got freaked sinking the amas since similar behavior in an H16 is prelude to pitchpoling. But it didn't give me any confidence that it would be good for an EC. (In contrast with the AI - a boat that, with the right sailors, did outstanding this year.)

So I've probably never sailed a Weta and should withdraw my comment. Still, though there have been several Weta entries, I don't remember seeing one at the finish. Maybe its that rusty brain again.

The Triak looks interesting. I remember that one on the beach in 2011. One cool thing about the Triak is that the missing forward iako doesn't interfere with a good paddle reach. I'll do some more investigation.

But, meantime, I still have my H16. With all due respect, Maddave, I love the upwind performance of my H16. Sure, there are lots of beachcats with boards that will kill me upwind. (Wouldn't an F16 be great!) But compared to most boats in the EC, it is a rocket. There's just this self-righting issue...

Posted 8 years ago #
Patowatomie
Member

Rather than a kayak based boat, maybe you should be looking for a lighter cat. The H16 is 340# new & it has a heavy mast. Even if it doesn't turtle (have you sealed your mast?) it'll still be a heck of a pull at times solo. A lighter cat might be the trick. One designed for solo work. How about an older A? A 16 squared with a bob on the mast? It's the righting that is the critical factor. I don't think I can right my 18 solo even with a bag, as such it would make a poor solo entry. I suspect the h16 is simply not a good solo boat even with a hobie bob and a dialed righting line. Why? It's heavy bare and heavier with your kit aboard. Start light. Keep it light even loaded. Never turtle. Hang on to the boat. Ever had a cat blow away from you due to the windage from the tramp and the masthead bob keeping it up? Scary. There are some good boats for your purpose though. And they don't have to be the New F16's or A's or nacra 17 either.

There's an older Boye MKIV for sale at the USACA with a carbon stick. The should make righting easier. One sail should also make life easier for the solo sailor. A couple reef points and figuring out how to get it to stay flat and you might be there. Keep the kit light!

Dan

Posted 8 years ago #
Iszatarock
Member

Dan, I hear you: LIGHT. Randy suggested the same to me in March though he pointed me to the F16 as a slightly smaller handfull than an A-class boat. I find it irritating that I don't have the same comfort level pushing things as I did some years ago. What would you say about a Mystere 4.3? I'm ready to sacrifice some top end for a boat that I can handle comfortably by myself. I thought the H16 was the right direction from the Tridarka Raider. It just wasn't far enough.

I'm thinking your right about staying with a cat, rather than a sailing kayak, too. I can paddle my H16 almost as fast as a kayak in the calm. But when the wind blows, Yeehaa!

Posted 8 years ago #
Patowatomie
Member

I'm thinking there are quite a few smaller cats out there that would get it done. The challenge is having enough bouyancy for you and your kit in a small cat. I made the same mistake running the T200 in my H18--low and wet takes it's toll in S. Texas. The budget is key there too as a new F16 could work for a price. Like you suggest a mystere 4.3 would get it done. Check out http://www.thebeachcats.com and http://www.catsailor.com for some used cats. I looked at http://www.usaca or whatever the acronym for the a cats. It's hard to find older ones, but they must be out there. A carbon stick might be worth it for the ease of stepping and righting. One thing that gets me about cats is either sitting with my legs outstretched for too long. The footwells that are self bailing on my double Tamanu really helped with that comfort factor. I know Mike Leneman did that with the modified Tornado years ago + a peddle unit for aux. propulsion. I think the main only rig with a spin is pretty nice for the solo sailor although being able to steer with sails is a nice safety feature too. Lotsa choices out there.

Dan

Posted 8 years ago #
Patowatomie
Member

If you want to do a small tri, you could also consider Richard Woods new Strike 15. Slick folder and reasonably light. I may be going that route.

Dan

Posted 8 years ago #
Iszatarock
Member

Dan, Yeah, the comfort of a trimaran is hard to beat. You might also consider the W17 http://www.smalltrimarandesign.com/ or the Scarab 16 http://www.teamscarab.com.au/index.html. Both look like great boats. But a) it takes me a LONG time to build anything as complicated as a trimaran and b) I haven't gotten over my addiction to speed. That may change as my bones continue to get creakier. Izatarock

Posted 8 years ago #
DogsLife
Member

Iszatarock,

I know that you do not like sitting in water and have written off a Hobie Adventure Island, but there are some modifications that you can make to raise the seat and reduce the water spray. The Adventure Island is a proven winner. How you sail it will determine your comfort level. Some of these other trimarans that you are looking at have agreater limitation at a higher cost. You can't beat the Mirage Drive combination.

I would gladly share anything that I have lerned about the Island...

Posted 8 years ago #
Patowatomie
Member

I don't know if I suggested the 18 square before, but there's one for sale in GA right now for a reasonable amount. Light and stable with decent freeboard, one sail + spin. designed for solo sailing...

Posted 8 years ago #

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