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Safety Release For Mainsheet

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Started 6 years ago by PeteCress
Latest reply from seabag

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PeteCress
Member
Since it was so Hobie-specific, I tried this in the Hobie AI forum, but did not get much in the way of useful responses.

Basically I am looking for some way to automagically depower the sail if/when I go overboard in heavy air. Nor light air, not every day, not even most of the time..... Just Heavy Air....

I had one of those "interesting" experiences on Thursday:
- Cross-onshore winds gusting regularly to 25 and occasionally to 30 and a little voice started whispering in my ear "Time to go in or yer gonna get huuurrrrrrt."
- Sailed almost to the beach, furled the main in waist-deep water, turned the boat around to face the wind and was walking it diagonally towards shore stern-first.
- Stumbled, fell in shallow water
- Grabbed an ama, but could not hold on for the full ride and, in retrospect, may have been better off not holding on.... -)
- Boat blew about a tenth of a mile down the beach and finally came to rest in some heavy dune grass where I retrieved it.
The thought of a tether (a-la Weta) now crosses my mind against this happening in similarly heavy air - but further from shore.

Not every day.... just on those "Special" days.... -)

But I am not sure I want to be tethered to that thing unless there's some safety factor sheet-wise.

OK, the no-brainer is a quick-release shackle on the helmsman's end of the tether - just like Weta recommends to keep a turtle-ing Weta from drowning you or a raging AI from dragging you senseless...

But you pull that quick release and now the boat is gone... what surf ski paddlers call a "Blow-Away".... and there you are in the middle of the bay looking and feeling foolish...

So we need something to tame that boat when we fall overboard in heavy air.

What I am thinking
- Replace the main sheet block's hook attachment to the sail with a quick-release snap shackle like this http://denverrope.com/images3/trigger_shackle.jpg
- When conditions seem to call for a tether, connect the tether to the shackle two ways: first the main tether line connected to the same place that the mainsheet is connected..... second, leaving 6" or so of loop in the main line, another length of line to the shackle release lanyard.
- Helmsman falls overboard, tether first pulls the shackle release lanyard, then transfers the load to the mainsheet
- Mainsheet is then detached from the sail, boat weathervanes stern-to-wind, sail flogs, and the helmsman is back in charge - albeit neck-deep in the water....
Thoughts from Those Who Live in the Real World ?
Posted 6 years ago #
Bermudaboy
Member

Hereintoaftoftrim, I don't quote from the WT race manual the following:

"The objective should be to define a standardized and unambiguous procedure for condensing the drift separation properties down to a set of coefficients that may be incorporated into existing stochastic trajectory forecast models for drifting objects of concern to search and rescue operations, checkpoint managers , and shore contacts. Statistically speaking, in simultaneous and typically welcomed hot WOB events, rare as they are, MOBs actually reaching a shore , show a significantly higher mortality rate, upon being met by their Shore Contact"

Seriously interesting and important thread! I often wonder how the danger can be minimized and seems you have put a lot of good thought into this for your craft. My case a little different in most conditions, but in really gnarly winds, it is possible for the sail to get flipped on surface repeatedly (i've seen rig and board together cartwheel across surface) and put dangerous distance between. With a drysuit on that distance doesn't need to be much for situation to becomes unrecoverable. I guess only serious point I could add is that any safety system we come up with, has to be tested in some different conditons to make us confident that the "tangling introduced danger factor" & "malfunctioning in safe normal operation-causing danger factor" don't exceed the big on we are trying to prevent...

Posted 6 years ago #
maddave440
Member

Carry a gps,strobe light and a radio on your vest just in case you ever fail to depower the sail if you fall overboard. You can call for help with your position. Good sail boat designers can build a boat that has a habit of turning into the wind without corrections. Coast Guard reccommended two strobe light to get attention.

Maddave

Posted 6 years ago #
ZeroTheHero
Member

When I was prepping my H17 for the 13 EC I thought about a teather a lot. I never did use that boat but I did have a few ideas. It's a tough call, many feel it's just beter not to teather. So here goes.

My teather was going to be very short. I didn't want to get pulled off the boat and dragged till I drowned. This happened at a Flying Scot regatta once. Guy fell in, got tangled in a sheet and his drag kept the boat from rounding up. Before the crew could douse he drowned.

My teather was going to have a quick, one handed release. In case of the above happening.

My main sheet also had a quick one handed release. In fact I have this on all my WT boats now. I use a snap shackle. That way one tug removes the sheet from the main so it can luff instantly. This is also very handy at the dock when the boom is thrashing about.

Posted 6 years ago #
Chekika
Member

I like the idea of a 6' tether, been planning to use one for some time. The snap schackle is smart, but my problem is that a Hobie Island already has a couple lines around (main & furling), a tether adds another, and a line to the schackle another. The Island cockpit is a confined space--it is not a canoe or larger boat. That many lines bothers me, worries me.

Any suggestions for this problem?

Keith

Posted 6 years ago #
KonkererOfTheUseless
Member

Here the type of tether you want:

http://obersheimers.com/marine-safety/safety-tethers/kong-safety-tethers/kong-orc-safety-tether-single-line/?gclid=CKLLtb-ip8kCFUKQHwodsxAM5w

Obviously the quick release snap shackle attaches to the human and the carabiner attaches to the boat. The sewn in bungie keeps it short to minimize entanglement issues.

Just be sure to test it in a somewhat controlled environment with help available.

Good luck!

Posted 6 years ago #
Chekika
Member

That is the tether I have singled out. Looks very good w/ quick releases. JD has them for $57 http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/product.do?part=226847&engine=adwords&keyword=product_ad&gclid=Cj0KEQjw98mvBRD-_ciSovKhq7gBEiQAEvsBZ6HZKuwaqYefbXvU2XPZJiJ9rQQoeIC7GXek8p1-HDUaAvJP8P8HAQ#pr-header-back-to-top-link

Keith

Posted 6 years ago #
MrMako
Member

Pete: I like the way you think, "What if?".
. I have the Kong tether and have through bolted two different pad eyes into my TI. One for each cockpit. In theory, a tether is to help keep you inside the life lines on a bigger boat. With these small boats it will only keep you from having to wave goodby as your boat sails off with out you. Having the pad eye further forward might keep you within arms reach of the Aka's. I am thinking of putting a pad eye in the stern to secure me incase I have to repair the rudder pin in the water. Watching the video of "Dogs Life" untethered and doing that, gives me nightmares.
Also, I don't trust attaching the tether to a PFD. People have come out of PFD's. With a proper harness, it goes under the PFD and tightens up under strain.
I do think you bring up a good point of how to depower the sail.
I am going to experiment with a quick release and tag line, at the aft end of the main sheet where it attaches to the hull. That is where you will be, if being drug though the water. Beware the mainsheet could still get hung on something and not completely depower the sail. But it may be enough to buy some time and re-enter the boat.
Good luck, see you on the beach

Posted 6 years ago #
Chekika
Member

I'm going to have my tether (or tethers, I have both an AI & Tandem) attached so that I can reach the main--at least that is my plan.

Keith

Posted 6 years ago #
ThisTripIsNecessary
Member

Should a tether be long enough for it to wrap around the boat 360 degrees so that the unfortunate person is not tethered under water? (worst case scenario). -- Wade

Posted 6 years ago #
seabag
Member

Not being an AI sailor it is probably out of line for me to chime in. But in looking at the rig, would it be easier to rig that line pull snap shackle to the bitter end of the main sheet? I don't know how that end attaches to the hull; my guess is that it that there is a block that attaches to a pad eye on the hull. Could that be shackled onto a quick release snap shackle? Then all you would need is a short length of line you could grab or leave trailing behind the boat in heavy air and get rid of the complexities of making the quick release part of your tether.

Posted 6 years ago #
Chekika
Member

Here is a picture of my Hobie AI 2 connections. Normally the main sheet is cleated down at the front crossbar, but I have moved mine back along the coaming so it is within easy reach from the seat (after this picture was taken.).

Keith

Posted 6 years ago #
seabag
Member

Keith,

Do you have a pic that shows how that turning block with a bail is fastened to the hull? Then we can look at what a place like Annapolis Performance Sailing has in the way of quick release tools. Besides the snap shackle that you found there are also pins that can get pulled.

Posted 6 years ago #
Chekika
Member

This picture may do. Note there is a block on the hull, forward and below the Xbar. I've moved the Harken cleat on Xbar back along the coaming to just in front of the handle which lowers the centerboard. When the cleat was on the Xbar, it was very difficult to release the main, especially in high winds.

Keith

Posted 6 years ago #
seabag
Member

Keith,

What I am looking for is how the block way at the after end of the boat is made fast to the bost. I suspect that there is some kind of an eyestrap which runs thru the bail on the block. If so, there are some snap shackles in the Annapolis catalog that have screw pin shackles on one end designed to be mounted onto deck fittings. See http://www.apsltd.com/hardware/shackles-and-fittings/snap-shackles.html?p=3.

Ben

Posted 6 years ago #
Chekika
Member

Here is the stern connection:

Keith

Posted 6 years ago #
seabag
Member

Exactly the right picture and what I expected.

This can be solved with a snap shackle. Eye strap needs to come off. Then the snapshackle bail could go on it. The bail on the block is too small to readily release from the snapshackle, so I'd get a new block that has a shackle instead of a bail as the attachment. On to that gets fastened a nice big stainless ring. This would be the cleanest way of doing it. You could also put the ring on the pad eye and the snap shackle on the block but you'll get a more postive release with the snapshackle on the eye strap.

You might be able to do this with webbing as well using one of those buckles rigged like we rig tow straps.

Ben

Posted 6 years ago #
TangledUpInBlue
Member

Releasing that block wouldn't depower the main completely. The block attached to the side of the boat is the next catch point. You can see that block in the two previous photos.

Those blocks on the side on the Tandem are closer to that point too.

http://postimg.org/image/jf6g10qpn/

Posted 6 years ago #
TangledUpInBlue
Member

I don't think I want to manage harness slack going directly to the clew but simple is good sometimes.

One thought is to put the snap shackle at the clew, run a bungee leash from the release to the stern through a large padeye that could pass the bungee leash, and put a ring or a handle on it. You could trail a rope off that ring or harness into the ring (if the other end were connected to the mainsheet at the snapshackle end or it had a stopper on it.) Maybe put an intermediate attachement point and/or stopper. The challenge would be getting the leash engineered with the right stretch to take out the slack and not releash the shackle.

Posted 6 years ago #
seabag
Member

Looks like you are looking at trying to find the best of bad alternatives. Any kind of release line at the clew will mean another line that has to be managed when you are roller furling the system. Blowing the block at the stern will only get you double the slack which may be enough if you are heading down wind but not enough upwind.

Going about this differently, I don't know if you have a rachet block in the system. It vastly improves the ability to hand hold the sheet. I always use them even in a simple 2-1 sheet. My guess is that the mainsheet comes to a cam cleat. If it is open topped it is a bit harder to cleat but uncleats really easily. You might be able to mount a half pin on one of the cross bars aheard of you and use a simple slipped hitch on it to hold the main when the weather is sketchy. A tug on the sheet then releases it. What I use on my Class 4 boat and on other small light skiffs.

Posted 6 years ago #
BeastOarman
Member

Tangled. is that Mission Bay?

Posted 6 years ago #
TangledUpInBlue
Member

Another rear release would be to mount a quick release cleat of some sort at the stern that could be released pulling down and back from the water. Untie the mainsheet at the rear block marked below and run it through that stearn cleat, trail the end behind the boat when things are sketchy. Release it and it's a short path for the mainsheet to run out of the block attached to the clew. That won't work with a TI since it's rigged different. One end of the mainsheet starts at the front seat, goes through all the blocks and ends at the back seat so the main can be controlled from either location.

Posted 6 years ago #
TangledUpInBlue
Member

BeastOarman wrote:

Tangled. is that Mission Bay?

I don't know, I pulled the photo from some hobie page.

Posted 6 years ago #
Chekika
Member

Here is my main sheet cleat--moved back along the coaming.

and

If you have a better idea for a cleat, I will consider it.

The block that the cleat is mounted on lifts the cleat up enough so that I don't bang my knuckles on the hull cleating the line. The line releases very nicely, even in strong winds.

Keith

Posted 6 years ago #
seabag
Member

What I have done with cam cleats for sheets on my class 4 is setting them up without a strap across the top. A bit more nuisance and not as automatically cleating but much easier to blow the cleat when I have done someting stupid. A eye strap mounted ahead of the cleat can act as a feeder but does not keep you from uncleating. You could do this simply by making a new platform that was big enough for the eye strap ahead of cleat ( on the feeding side).

The idea of putting the bitter end of your main in a cam cleat near the stern of your boat as suggested by Tangled up Blue is interesting. It could be an open topped cleat and a ring with a short bit of line or even just a short bit of line with a bowline around the sheet ahead of the cleat would let you blow the cleat by pulling on the line.

Posted 6 years ago #
TangledUpInBlue
Member

seabag wrote:

...an open topped cleat and a ring with a short bit of line or even just a short bit of line with a bowline around the sheet ahead of the cleat would let you blow the cleat by pulling on the line.

Sounds like that would work. On my Tandem Island I could probably mount an open block near the rear seat, extend a release line from there to the stern for emergency depower and while sailing, control the main from the front seat. If the mainsheet were longer, I could run the end of the mainsheet at rear seat right to a cleat on the stern. I just replaced the mainsheet, wish I had gotten a longer one. I'm going to experiment with it. I've thought about a tether but seems like the most likely time I would need it I'd be tied to a runaway boat and end up ejecting it if I could. Having one to replace a rudder pin or make other repairs is a good idea too.

Having a trigger shackle at the sail attachment point has the advantage that it might be easier and faster to reset the rig after going for a swim and recovering. It wouldn't be easy to reset everything back like it was with a stern cleated main and a release line, especially in weather.

Posted 6 years ago #
seabag
Member

You know you could do a simple experiment without doing any mods. Instead of a bowline to the bail of your after mainsheet block, give it a carefully set up slipped hitch. See if you can release the bight under load. If you need a little more tension do a slipped bowline, which is what we used to do with various lines when I dove for our Uncle.

Posted 6 years ago #

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