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Paddling Fulcrum Question

(12 posts) (5 voices)

Started 6 years ago by Bermudaboy
Latest reply from Feks

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Bermudaboy
Member

I'm not paddler but been practicing and studying kayak paddling videos for the what I figure will be 8-10 miles of Harlowe portion. Forward stroke only, nothing fancy! I've made my kayak paddle in 2pc with relatively short shaft, primarily not for function, but to save on weight and space on forward deck (took clay mold off a friends werner sherper). Now different than Kayak, is that when paddling I am just sitting atop windsurfer deck, so have no gunnel, and literally only about an inch of freeboard.. I can place a rod, under my forward dry bag, to give my feet asbase to allow my torso to dig in.

My question is, that with this short shaft my hand are just about at the top of the paddle, I imagine that with my hand that close to the "load" as fulcrum point and my torso powering the leverage farthest away, it actually must be good physics/placement, yet when I look at all the different training videos it appears that the hand on all these is quite distance from paddle. Wondering if this is best physics for paddle, or if it has more to do with the height of the freeboard on kayaks....???

Posted 6 years ago #
feralcat
Blocked

Bermudaboy, what are the deminsions of your board? Is it possible to use it in the paddling mode as a SUP? I have a 14.5 Malibu express SOT (http://www.malibukayaks.com/express-recreational) that has very little freeboard. The big difference between a board and the malibu is the foot pegs and a shallow bucket that provides stabilization/support for the hips, this allows the torso rotation to provide the most power. Hand placement in my opinion is more of a fuction of what angle you paddle (high or low). The wider you are on your paddle grip the more you open up your shoulder joint is and can cause injury over time. For paddle length I would go with what is recommended for your height and board witdh. Another option is to paddle your board on your knees using swim hand paddles (http://www.swimoutlet.com/p/strokemaker-paddles-1-green-1231/?color=9325).

Cheers, FeralCat

Posted 6 years ago #
Bermudaboy
Member

FC, board width where I sit is 26", paddle shaft is 34". My hands are placed on the outside edge of that. Can paddle in stand and kneel positions, mostly though just to change up, and stretch out, but find with this board, the most efficient is in the sitting position, so sitting is 99%...

Posted 6 years ago #
Bermudaboy
Member

Im 6-2. Hopin to get more paddlers feedback. Worried that my ideas on the physics/freeboard/ maybe wrong, and I should add a center section to the shaft to lengthen it up some. Also started thinkin this morning, that that maybe error is in too short a shaft = smaller radius =less stroke arc length... now I'm thinkin that maybe i just overthink way too much...

Posted 6 years ago #
feralcat
Blocked

With your board length and height I recommend a paddle of 220 to 225 cm.

Posted 6 years ago #
SeaDawg
Member

With a 24" beam and a 6''2" height I'd recommend a 230cm paddle as the hypotenuse to this triangle. Rather than focusing not the fulcrum point focus on the phase of the stroke where the blade is vertical in the water. This is when the blade is most efficient in creating the resistance for you to pull yourself forward past the paddle. I phrase it this way on purpose.

Just not enough coffee in the system yet to write my usual NY 4 Step Forward Stroke Clinic, and typing on an iPhone.

See you on the water,
SeaDawg

Posted 6 years ago #
Bermudaboy
Member

Thanks guys very much for input...goin to make two middleshaft sections thinkin a10" & 20" and try them out..... hopefully there's just going to be a 12knts down wind at ever turn in the Harlowe and my packed paddle will give the dragon flies a comfortable dry perch on the bow.. Sort of though, now got the bug for understanding paddle propulsion....urgh.

Posted 6 years ago #
BeastOarman
Member

Plenty of good stuff to start online, as a beginner myself last year I got a lot out of a very short Greg Barton video clip showing the leg drive/torso twist as well as a description (on Epic site?) of the stroke as planting your blade and envisioning pulling yourself past a vertical pole like it's a ski slalom pole. Or something like that. Point is, it only looks like a circular stroke from outside the boat. For me it feels like a figure-8.

Best of course is if you can attend a stroke clinic by WT's own. Any chance of one happening Thursday before the EC? Never too late to learn - more!

Posted 6 years ago #
Bermudaboy
Member

Thanks Beast O, currently in China n getting trying to get on Youtube is worse than heading into Choko against the outgoing tide. Going to find the G Barton clip when get back... Don't think have time to go anywhere other than Lake Norman for training when get back... Cant beleive its just a few weeks away now! Yee---haw!

Posted 6 years ago #
BeastOarman
Member

YouTube is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lef_ut8n0ms

Article is http://www.epickayaks.com/article/article/bartons-forward-stroke

NCC will be a great proving ground for you - and all of us making modifications. Coming up quickly!

Posted 6 years ago #
Bermudaboy
Member

dudes, thanks for all the greatea advice, tested out the 2.3 meter paddle today, actually a little smaller than by a bit, as I had to canibalize my EC paddle shaft to get it the extension center portion... Anyway what I found is regarding leverage, load and power, is that it feels like a ten speed bike, the short paddle feels like your in 3 rd gear and can really rip it up for short bursts,, and the 2.3 meter feels like your in 10th gear... I could easily maintain a 4mph speed with the long paddle and although the leverage load is higher, paddling strokes are much more long and even. Thanks!! Very beneficial advice from all... (BTW, hope you cool Florida tribers can handle this NC heat, it is gruelling muggy hot up here today...lol)

Posted 6 years ago #
Feks
Member

I personaly think that with todays aproch 215 /230 is way to long, I'm 6'3" and only youse a 210 , it dosent realy effect what I paddle eter my pace17 or more traditional kayak and with a bord I don't think it going to mater about it being to wide, the shorter shaft will produce a higher rate, but not be as aggressive on your joints, also look at the blade size, if it to big you will whear yourself out quiker. A lot of paddlers are now downsizing , not loosing to much along the way, I'm now yousing a wing 85% of the time! and looking at sumthing smaler than a mid wing. Barton and Salumski from epic are grate value on u tube and even beter in the flesh thers a good reson why thay Win. Also foot straps may be an advantage on yout bord, don't over think things your not on a traditional disaplin boat kneeling wold be ok and what about taking sumthing from the sup yousers, mabe a section to convert your paddle to a long sup paddle?

Posted 6 years ago #

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