What's the best idea for determining the high tides forthe Nightmare. I can find info for the entrance to Lostmans River and Shark River but nothing for the Broad River. If Lostmans and Shark River are at high tide does that mean that the Nightmare/Broad Creek are up?
Nightmare High Tide
(12 posts) (10 voices)-
BustedRudder
MemberSomeone smart will jump in I'm sure, I would look at it like this:
Extrapolate the difference between the two known tide points as the Broad river(gulf side) is about midway.
Then understand that high tide at any place inland of that point tide will have perhaps 1.5 hours delay before it's high like the delay between indian keys and chokloski.
I'd be pushing my way into the nightmare on a rising tide well before any "high" .
In flying there are 2 useless things: runway behind and sky above. In kayaking: bottom below and falling tide..:)
Posted 5 years ago # -
SquirrelyPaddles
MemberHere is a link I've made of gages that collect realtime data in ENP. There are others stations too. I go down there every six to eight weeks to service all the "silver boxes" up to Broad River. The tide charts down there are not always accurate due to the winds. I generally compare the realtime readings from these stations to the tide charts to help predict the current conditions. Hope this helps.
~SP
Posted 5 years ago # -
Dorsalis
MemberOK, I know this is an old thread, but the information is yet very valuable to folks who anticipate taking on the Nightmare for the first time.
BustedRudder & BeastOarman: You describe extrapolating the difference between two known tide points, one at a Gulf Entrance point, like Indian Key, and one at an inland bay, like Chokoloskee. WHAT two known tide points are you referring to with respect to Broad River? In "Saltwater Tides" it seems like the closest two known points (From Gulf River side to inland bay side) on the South Side are Shark River entrance and Whitewater bay. Are those the two points you refer to? Figuring that one enters the Nightmare from Broad River, isn't Lostmans' River Entrance closer to Broad River? Are you recommending using Lostman's River and figuring about 1 1/2 hours difference between the entrance and the Broad River down below? OR the difference between Lostman's River Entrance and Onion Key Bay to the North?
Sorry to be a bit dense on this, but it seems rather important to be sure that I clearly understand the tide pattern for entering the Nightmare on a Rising Tide.
Thanks for your input on this.
Dorsalis
PS Squirrlypaddles: Thanks for you input on this. However, the website you provided does not seem to go ahead more than 7 days so does not offer any information for March at this point.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Dorsalis
MemberOK, I know this is an old thread, but the information is yet very valuable to folks who anticipate taking on the Nightmare for the first time.
BustedRudder & BeastOarman: You describe extrapolating the difference between two known tide points, one at a Gulf Entrance point, like Indian Key, and one at an inland bay, like Chokoloskee. WHAT two known tide points are you referring to with respect to Broad River? In "Saltwater Tides" it seems like the closest two known points (From Gulf River side to inland bay side) on the South Side are Shark River entrance and Whitewater bay. Are those the two points you refer to? Figuring that one enters the Nightmare from Broad River, isn't Lostmans' River Entrance closer to Broad River? Are you recommending using Lostman's River and figuring about 1 1/2 hours difference between the entrance and the Broad River down below? OR the difference between Lostman's River Entrance and Onion Key Bay to the North?
Sorry to be a bit dense on this, but it seems rather important to be sure that I clearly understand the tide pattern for entering the Nightmare on a Rising Tide.
Thanks for your input on this.
Dorsalis
Posted 2 years ago # -
OneEyedJake
MemberDorsalis
I have done the Nightmare on pre-EC scouting trips the last two years as well as several times during ECs. On the two scouting trips we (Dusk2Dawn and I) arrived at the entrance just at low tide at Lostman's River entrance. We figured that would be close to tide change for the Nightmare and allow us to go through on an incoming tide.
The first time we entered just as the tide appeared to change; about 30-45 mins after low at Lostman's and got blocked by mangrove tangles a few hundred yards inside. After feeding swarms of mosquitoes for about 30-45 mins the tide was high enough to continue.
The second scouting trip we arrived at the entrance at low tide for Lostman's and the tide was still going out. Waited about an hour and a half before heading in and had no problem. Well, no problem except the usual blockages, low hanging branches, tight turns and vicious mosquitoes.
These are just my observations and experiences, as they say, "your mileage may vary."
Posted 2 years ago # -
MicroTom
Key MasterIn 2016 SandyBottom and I camped on Highland Beach before heading to the nightmare. Low was 8:00 AM. The tide went way out and we were stuck there for a few extra hours unable to lauch our canoes. It was atleast 2 hours into the incoming tide before we were able to head into the nightmare. No bug for us. The nightmare was pleasant with 20-25 mph winds everywhere else.
Posted 2 years ago # -
nitenavigator
MemberJohn diller the owner of savage river canoe works will be camping at fort Desoto camp ground 3 days before the everglades challenge. If you want to look or try out one of his boats then see him at lot 99. He has a one person and a tandem, his tandem is decked, light weight , and has a sail.
Posted 2 years ago # -
BustedRudder
MemberDorsalis, apologies for delay.
Broad River & Nightmare are nearly halfway between Lostmans. For fun I checked tides for both and they were only 15 minutes apart for high tide. That can change on a daily basis but assume for high tide at the shore the mean between is close.
How far inland you are will change your apparent tide. For example on a random day high tide at Chokoloski is 1:30 later than high at Indian Keyfor example. I have had full rides from Indian Key Pass to Choko entering after peak high tide. Entering at dead low you will be fighting an ebb tide the whole way. You would not get any benefit until at least 2-3 hours after low.
The nightmare can be just that. I would guess high in the nightmare is 1 hour after the mean of Lostmans and Shark and I'd be entering 2-3 hours before that mean. No problem entering earlier except you might be waiting on the tide feeding the flying teeth.
Individual results may vary, void where prohibited, etc
Posted 2 years ago # -
Its been years since I did Nightmare, so take this with that in mind. One thing no one has mentioned which used to be a problem for me, was that at high tide in Nightmare, it can be confusing about just where the trail is. Now, today, maybe the route is marked in some way. Maybe? Or maybe it is just maintained better so you can see saw cuts. Remember, Jim Czarnowski's harrowing, life-threatening trip thru Nightmare during the 2016EC.
Keith
Posted 2 years ago #
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