New Rule for Fort Desoto Beach Access

WaterTribe Forums » WaterTribe Rules

New Rule for Fort Desoto Beach Access

(60 posts) (34 voices)

Started 5 years ago by Chief
Latest reply from ZeroTheHero

Tags:

No tags yet.

12 Next »

Chief
Coastal Vagabond

I met with the rangers at Fort Desoto today and we agreed that there won't be any beach access via vehicles except for handicapped WaterTribers with a handicap parking pass. Anyone driving on the access road without a handicap pass and/or without turning in their paperwork will be DQed.

All WaterTribers must turn in their paperwork and then unload their boats and carry or use portage carts to move them onto the beach. Anyone unloading before turning in their paperwork will be DQed.

If your boat cannot be moved from the parking lot to the beach, you must hand in your paperwork and then sail around from the boat ramp to the beach. You cannot have help getting your boat onto the beach. Anyone sailing around before handing in their paperwork will be DQed.

All boats must be on the beach and setup no later than 14:30. Anyone not setup by 14:30 on inspection day will be DQed.

Posted 5 years ago #
Karank
Member

Gonna, create some major problem for some.... and getting up the beach with a heavy boat... by 14:30 will be a "Challange". I love Watertribe. Me thinks some of the big boats will morph.

Posted 5 years ago #
Chekika
Member

Karank wrote:

Gonna, create some major problem for some.... and getting up the beach with a heavy boat... by 14:30 will be a "Challange". I love Watertribe. Me thinks some of the big boats will morph.

If they come in at true high tide, they should have a chance.

Keith

Posted 5 years ago #
Lawless
Member

Wow. I may be "Lawless" but the former lawyer detects a lot of ambiguity here.

1. If I recruit a "handicapped watertriber with a handicap parking pass" to tow my boat. can I drive my boat directly to the beach?

2. Does my regular boat trailer qualify as a "portage cart"?

3. If I "sail around" a day (or week) before and anchor off, am I DQ'd for failing to have turned in before "sailing around"?

4. If "You cannot have help getting your boat onto the beach", does that mean that watertribers who help each other are now DQ'd? (Seems kind of "un-tribal"...)

5. If "All boats must be on the beach and setup no later than 14:30." and "Anyone not setup by 14:30 on inspection day will be DQed," has a new "race" been created from paperwork turn in to beach? Will there be a prize for that leg?

All kidding aside, what's the real issue here? Did some take too long to unload? Was there any damage due to natural resources as a result of tribe activities? Did anyone consciously disrepect ranger authority? Has anyone actually complained about WaterTribe activities?

Or have rangers simply decided that one busy beach day per year is too taxing on their federally funded existances?

Or is this a new "filter" to activly discourage participation by any with a craft bigger than a Hobie TI?

Respect for the Tribe (but can't help to question authority),

Lawless

Posted 5 years ago #
danceswithmullet
Member

After the amount of abusing this privilege this year this is not suprising. Especially the folks that drove their cars onto the dunes and used the headlights to rig their boats. The dunes are sensative, people may have noticed the beach erosion this year. Those who are upset by this have only those who abused the rules this year to blame. DWM

Posted 5 years ago #
Chief
Coastal Vagabond

This isn't the actual rule here. This was just a heads up. We have several lawyers in the Tribe and I am sure you all agree I have no legal background at all. Please refer to the prime directive.

No you can't recuit someone with a handicap pass to tow your boat. You can't get any help from anyone to load your boat onto the beach or to launch. Captain and crew only.

And no it is not to discourage anything bigger than a Hobie AI although this Expedition-Style Adventure Race is intended for kayaks, canoes and SMALL SAILBOATS with EXPERTS at the helm or paddle.

You can thank all the folks who didn't care about the rules for using that road and pretty much trashing every single rule the park has on that sort of thing. We were in a very select group that was allowed to do that and we blew it.

Posted 5 years ago #
MarlinBrando
Member

I was planing on putting "landing gear" on my ship anyway. My own portage cart all the time. Really going for that expedition craft utility. Was wondering if this was allowed....

Posted 5 years ago #
Lawless
Member

"Punishing all for the sins of a few" is a response associated with a long history of atrocities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

With a year to plan, I'm just surprised that this axe has fallen so sharply... Still lots of time to make amends and work toward an equitable solution. I'm sure that many tribe members would step up in a self-policing role to ensure that the powers that be feel that their authority is receiving due respect. Regret that this headache has fallen in your lap, Chief. Admittedly, pissing-contests like this are a good part of the reason that I am now...

Lawless.

Posted 5 years ago #
Chief
Coastal Vagabond

I understand, but I don't think of it as punishment. This abuse has been going on for several years. It is time to go back to our roots. We didn't have road access for the first few years and now we don't have it going forward.

But I will ask the rangers if 50 lashes would be a better way to go.

Posted 5 years ago #
Jarhead
Member

With all due respect, this is a crock. The road is absolutely undamaged and looks the same as it did 30 years ago. Cars on a sand road--of all things for people to get their knickers in a twist over.

And don't expeditions start when they start, not before? WTF, we use cars to get to the parking lot. Virtually every expedition in the history of expeditions was preceded by "help" from various people other than the person or persons departing.

Perhaps the most famous and admirable small boat expedition in the past 100 years was Shackleton's journey with five others 720 nautical miles from Elephant Island in Antarctica to a South Georgia whaling station. But, we must DQ them all and discount their accomplishments because personal accounts as well as photos reveal that the men who stayed on Elephant Island HELPED SHACKLETON, WORSELEY, CREAN, ET AL GET THE BOAT TO THE BEACH. Sorry to point out this blatant and shameful rules violation to those who previously admired what they did. I know I used the same example a few years ago when we were going to "return to our roots" and one's children could not so much as carry a dry bag to the beach.

Posted 5 years ago #
JoeVanGeaux
Member

The origin of the name "Chief" is native American for "that person of influence and authority who is perpertually between a rock and hard place".

Posted 5 years ago #
Chief
Coastal Vagabond

The rules we have about outside help are absolutely intended to limit the size of boats that will be able to do these challenges. The intent is small boats that can be launched from a beach by one or two people. These boats should also be able to be setup on the beach by two people. Use a kedge and get it done. This is part of the challenge.

Also, limiting help to only those who have signed waivers is due to insurance and lawsuits. Shackleton probably didn't have to worry about that but I do. We want the paper work before people start unloading because as soon as someone drops a boat on their big toe, someone will decide to sue. They shouldn't, but they will.

The fact is, I am sick and tired of having to go up and down the beach telling people not to drive on the sand and not turn it into a parking lot. Truth be told --- the rangers would probably allow it to continue with a little more begging from me. BUT I WON'T ALLOW IT ANY MORE.

I will deal with it just like all of you. My new Core Sound 17 Mk 3 is going to be sailed around and kedged by me without any help onto the beach. If I can do it, so can you.

Posted 5 years ago #
Lawless
Member

Frippin' lawyers ruin everything for everybody!

Lawless

-- who may spend the next year looking into having "being a whiney little wussy" defined as a "handicap" under the ADA.

Posted 5 years ago #
BoatBum
Member

can we get help with our boat from other tribers?

Posted 5 years ago #
Karank
Member

Cool boat and relatively heavy at 400/450#. http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17mk3.htm

Self righting, self bailing, easy reefing, fast, cabin.....

Posted 5 years ago #
seabag
Member

This requirement gives people with heavy boats the excuse to add some kit. Namely a handy billy with a cleat on it. And we all like the excuse to get some more stuff especially if it is cheap. A main sheet can be repurposed as well.

Posted 5 years ago #
PrivateHam
Member

Chief wrote:

Anyone sailing around before handing in their paperwork will be DQed.

Does the above imply that one cannot launch and sail any distance toward the starting beach before turning in the paperwork at 10am? On a calm day, it may take a number of hours to travel the 8 miles from the launch to the start. Can we anchor off the beach and walk the paperwork up? Alternatively, could a consideration be made to submit the paperwork early via email? Any method that would allow us to leave the launch prior to 10am would work so far as I go.

Given that the bigger boats like one end of the beach, I could envision a long line of registrants at 10am followed by a mad dash for the boat launch and then a race around to the beach. That is starting to sound a bit fun, now that I say it.

Posted 5 years ago #
CrazyRussian
Member

The beach access via driveway has not been abailable for first 7-8 years or so. Ever since vehicles were allowed on the beach, this privelege has been grossly abused. I see no problem with the draft of the rule.
In 2002 Wizard pulled his 800 lbs Paradox up on the beach singlehandedly. It can be done. :)
To make logistic a bit easier, i would be nice to have an ability to turn papers in on Thursday night at the campground.

Posted 5 years ago #
Hollywood
Member

From a logistics point of view. "Paper" work should all be electronic documents going forward. Using a system like Eventbrite would allow Chief the ability to have everyone read and "electronically sign" the documents which would cover him from the same liability angle that the "paper" documents are now. Several benefits come to mind: better for the environment, less headache and hassle during inspection day, easily archived for long term, all information easily viewed, sorted and accessed on ipads or smartphone by Race Management.

Oh and no issue of long lines at 10am.

#Eventbrite

Posted 5 years ago #
RunsWithBeer
Member

I understand the problem, but it would seem that there is a better way of policing the beach access than punishing the class 4 boats (and others)

Posted 5 years ago #
Sundance
Member

Chief shouldn't be running on the beach yelling at people. We need a designated "Beachmaster", who is not entered in the challenge to control the beach. As well as a designated IT person to deal with SPOT issues and a PR/Coast Guard Liasion as part of the Challenge Management Team under the direction of the Chief or the Race Director.

Posted 5 years ago #
Scareman
Member

It is a shame even the morning of the launch that you can see lots of cars on the beach access road from the drone video of the start of the 2015 EC.

Posted 5 years ago #
KiwiBird
Member

I'm obviously in a rather pugnacious mood this evening...

This year was my 9th EC experience. Every year Chief has warned that we have merely minutes to put our boats on the beach if we need to deliver them by vehicle to the sand's edge. And every year contestants have ignored his request.

To me this is an essential part of the challenge and the very first filter of the actual event. Getting one's boat on the beach.

Every year I have carried my kayak to the beach; typically there's a body to take an end with me. And every year I have made four or five trips carrying my gear to the beach from the carpark. Surely I can't carry that much more gear than another entrant?

KB

Posted 5 years ago #
Karank
Member

I must say that anyone that is going to put an empty boat on the beach that weighs 400# to 450#. http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17mk3.htm is not going to listen to "mine is bigger than yours" ha ha

Figure out how to do it! That is the Watertribe Way!

Posted 5 years ago #
BeastOarman
Member

Easy for me to say with the size boats I prefer, but this seems like a return of a true filter to differentiate this race.
It takes commitment to finish an EC. Filters keep out the uncommitted. We should all be committed!

Posted 5 years ago #
BeastOarman
Member

Hhhhmmmm, that didn't come out quite right.

Posted 5 years ago #
WindwardMark
Member

"It is time to go back to our roots." :)

Posted 5 years ago #
SailBirdMike
Inactive

Potentially dumb question - doesn't kedging ON to the beach at Fort Desoto present a significant chance of more environmental damage than either driving or group carrying of boats? I also believe it's illegal to tie onto a tree or any fixed object in the park. I agree there was a pretty large contingent of parking/launching abusers (full disclosure: by accident, I was one of them in 2011) this year, but I wonder if a full ban is the right thing to do. Chief, you mentioned a 15 minute limit at one point on Inspection Day, which I liked. Mostly I worry about time constraints on Friday - many entrants have to really push it to get here on Friday, arranging time off work, etc., and a day of foul weather, wind, and/or tides could make this a difficult requirement, unless we really DO want to cut down to seriously lighter, simpler boats. I like the filters we have (and if you remember my 2014 launch debacle, you know that's saying a lot!) but I personally am unsure if a pre-event filter is fair. I would thing a decent compromise would be to allow assisted carry of boats to the beach, but that's just me and my 500 or so lb trimaran talking. And technically, I AM eligible for a handicapped parking permit, but I'll be damned if I'm going to get one before my limbs are in a cart next to me!

Posted 5 years ago #
CleanSlate
Member

For those who have pre-staged their vehicles at Key Largo, could we sail/paddle from the campground to near the beach (but still 20 yards out), anchor boat, wade in to beach, turn in paperwork, wade back out to boat again, paddle/pull the boat the rest of the way to the beach, then drag it up to the high tide line?

Posted 5 years ago #
Cwolfe
Member

I approve wholeheartedly. In general, I favor as many filters as possible. I particularly miss the old filters going into Placida. That being said, I try to travel alpine light.

I really like the idea of electronic e-signing of waivers. Seems like a good technical solution so that the big boat sailors can waive all their right and put their first born into promisary from afar before they start their voyage to the beach.

I like it. Autocracy at work.

Smiles and laughter,

Cwolfe

Posted 5 years ago #