Florida property rules/ stealth camping

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Florida property rules/ stealth camping

(18 posts) (13 voices)

Started 8 years ago by seabag
Latest reply from Chief

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seabag
Member

In Maine and Massachusetts property rights go to the low tide line. Intertidal is forbidden unless for fishing, fowling or emergencies. No picnics on someone's beach. What are the Florida rules? What are the guides to places where it is legal to camp? I understand stealth camping, a.k.a. don't get caught, but have some ethical issues with it based on my part time profession as a Registered Guide. In Maine, the Maine Island Trail pretty much solves this. and I understand the Everglades park rules. What happens north of the Everglades, especially on the inland route? I see lots of development there.

Thanks for any help.

Posted 8 years ago #
Scareman
Member

For me, I do not trespass and therefore I will follow posted signs accordingly to avoid conflict while paddling in Florida.

However, if there is a critical situation that requires me to land or seek shelter, then I will do what is required to survive.

This is similar to what I teach as a Safe Driving Instructor...keep your situational awareness on high alert when driving and follow the rules. However, if you are in a life and death situation in your vehicle, then you must drive to the softest safest target while slowing down carefully and under control to minimize injuries.

Posted 8 years ago #
Karank
Member

I would like to know... what the Florida law is on this question. Texas has a very different take on rights to the high tide line based on Mexican Law when we gained independence. This part of Texas law is very complicated but is roughtly this "The public holds property rights on the beach even above the line of state ownership if it can be demonstrated as a matter of fact that the public has used this beach "since time immemorial" and thereby established an easement or other property interest over what would otherwise be private land. "

Posted 8 years ago #
Chekika
Member

FL is a "stand-your-ground" state as is Texas and a number of other states. As you know, some very bad things have happened in the name of this law in FL as well as other states. It seems that one would want to be very careful about stealth camping on private property in FL.

Keith

Posted 8 years ago #
seabag
Member

Chekika wrote:

" It seems that one would want to be very careful about stealth camping on private property in FL."

So how do you sort out where it is legit to camp?

Posted 8 years ago #
ZeroTheHero
Member

This advice is a little of a fudge since I was in class 4 and was able to camp on the boat. However looking carefully at the course you can see a lot of places where it is a pretty good guess you are either not on private property, or are on a part comonly used by others if it is. For instance there are many spoil islands that seem to get a fair amount of traffic. There are small beaches tucked into mangroves. If you want to get a feel for the spoil island idea look at leatherlungs videos from 2012 on youtube. He camps on several and there is evidence of campfire circles, etc. there is an island right inside the Venice Inlet like this. Between the start and CP1 seems to be the most populated section but there are still places. Mangroves are really thick and if there isn't a path through, and you are quiet, it is unlikely you will have an issue. The lack of a path to a small clearing on the shore is a clear indicator the owner isn't intersted in that piece of dirt and tide debris. Sorry I don't know the FL law but I think it's easier to judge when you are there in person than we can describe on the web. Also there is always the option of asking. People have asked and had good results, at least I seem to remember stories to that end.

Posted 8 years ago #
Karank
Member

The question ‘is’ how do I know where the “private” property is?

On the Gulf Beach (or any beach) in Texas the public property goes up to the high tide or vegetation line. Even Cities cannot fence off access....legally. I do not plan to set foot on any property except the start, each check point and the finish. The question is, where can I “legally” put my foot…. If I must?

Posted 8 years ago #
BeastOarman
Member

There is camping at CP1. North and South of CP1 there are lots of small spoil islands or bits of beach where people have caught some shuteye. Mostly, be respectful and don't do anything you would not want someone doing in your neighborhood. I like to come in quietly in the dark, leave before anyone is up, and leave not a single trace.

Improvise. That is the adventure. If you cannot find a place to stop, you are not tired yet, so keep going.

Posted 8 years ago #
BlueJay
Member

Submerged land belongs to the public in Florida. So you do have to the high water mark.

Posted 8 years ago #
Chekika
Member

Ownership of submerged lands is a complicated issue. All submerged lands do not belong to the state. Without trying to dig it up, I remember an article in the Miami Herald about some privately owned land in, I believe, Biscayne National Park off Miami in Biscayne Bay. The owner claimed they were going to build on it--you know, threatening to put up a high-rise condo building. It seemed like a ploy to get the Park Service to fork over a lot of money for submerged land. If you want to read about this issue, go to a pretty good paper put out by a private legal firm about Sovereign Submerged Lands in Florida http://www.mfmlegal.com/articles/Sovereign%20submergedLands2.pdf

Keith

Posted 8 years ago #
KnotWright
Member

KnotWright wrote:

Being an FNG (fairly new guy) I rarely post, but this is certainly a relevant topic. Here is some interesting reading on the subject: http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/landuse/vol151/spain1.htm

For our purposes, it is summed up here "Thus, like most states, Florida recognizes the mean high water line as the boundary between public trust land and private property"

Now, I don't know what they do over on the Gulf Coast, but here's how they get you in Palm Beach. The millionaire landowner sees you on the beach and calls the cops. A cop or two show up and walk into the landowners back yard, just above the high water line and call out for you to come over to them. Once you do, and cross the high water line, they arrest you for trespassing.

Posted 8 years ago #
ZeroTheHero
Member

Isn't it great how easily the law is bought? Jeesh! They used to do that to surfers in RI. Youd be surfing and loose you board or just need a break for a sec. Step foot on the sand, above or below the HT line, at Narragansett Beach and you were nabbed if you didn't pay to get on beach. I was always amazed at how they could track a few guys out of the dozens out surfing. I could go on.

Posted 8 years ago #
Coastie
Member

Perhaps it is just me, but finding a temporary camping spot during the Everglades Challenge is really a "non-issue" except in the inner waterways of the Everglades. Lots of open area... and I've found rather friendly land owners on the west coast of Florida (in comparison to some of the rich folks in Palm Beach, etc). With our Hobie Getaway, we are a little less stealthy than some of our fellow tribers, but we haven't had any issues. Of course we might not get away with beaching at the Marco Island Hilton beach......but in inclement weather, "any port in a storm" is our motto:)

Posted 8 years ago #
MicroTom
Key Master

This is a good place to start for what the state of Florida recommends for paddlers.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/paddling/saltwater.htm

I have shared this in the past. Its a Google Earth listing of places of I have researched. Check the comments on the markers for more information.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzTsG16QKQjVQjRqbFo2NnpNRVk/edit?usp=sharing

(Disclaimer: There may be some mistakes. Please do your own homework. If you see something thats wrong let me know)

Posted 8 years ago #
TwinSpirit
Member

Hello all,

Lots of good info in this thread. One thing that comes to mind is 2 years ago,on my first try. I had some of the same camping spots listed. Due the the winds some of us only made it 25 to 30 miles. Since I thought there was no way that I would only make it 25 miles. I didnt have any spots marked in the first 60 miles before check point one. Now I do :-).

Twinspirit

Posted 8 years ago #
seabag
Member

Many thanks for the information, really useful for those of us new to the challenge and from away. In exchange of gifts I can supply some brilliantly lit ice; at least I have power something that many of my fellow Mainers don't. Merry Christmas and many thanks; keep the information coming.

Posted 8 years ago #
Sharknado
Member

As a local I would ammend MicroTom's map by pointing out that Keewaydin Island (the roughly 8 mile stretch between Naples and Marco Island) is primarily State owned and managed by The Rookery Bay Research Reserve. I think only about 25% is privately held. The rules for camping etc. are difficult to nail down but local paddlers camp there regularly and you can be confident that a one night no trace stop would not be a problem. If you are travelling the intracoastal it can be difficult to find a place to land, but at marker #44 there is a short trail that will get you to the beach without bushwhacking.

Posted 8 years ago #
Chief
Coastal Vagabond

I usually explain this at the captains meeting on Friday before we start. Basically it boils down to common sense.

Stealth camping does not mean you sneak around and camp on posted private property or non posted property that is obviously privately owned. It means you pick a spot that is just the opposite and then setup camp quietly. Don't make a fire. Usually you arrive and depart in the dark or at least about sun up. You leave no trace that you were there and nobody knows you were there.

But on some occasions you will land on somebodies beach in the middle of the day. Maybe you need to fix something or whatever. I have done this a few times and the owners have always been friendly. Sometimes they have even offered me food, drinks, help whatever. You just need to be polite, respectful, and tell them what you are doing.

In 2010 I crash landed on a private beach at night. Some people living in the condos came out and asked what was going on. When I told them, they brought me inside and let me use their shower and provided some really good whiskey and hot soup. They gave me a ride to a local motel and then helped me again the next day. There are many more stories like this - just ask Pelican.

Posted 8 years ago #

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