Lots of interesting stories, comments, and opinions this year in EC2015. I will first say that I am a proud member of WaterTribe and respect the outstanding leadership of our Chief. He has set up an outstanding challenge that I am thrilled to compete in. I will also say that I am extremely proud of the U.S. Coast Guard. I have zero knowledge of the events/reasoning/actions during the first day of our challenge, but I am fully confident that all issues will be resolved by our fearless leader Chief and the Coast Guard.
Everyone has opinions, so I usually listen to all and don't take offense to any. However, I take strong exception to comments from Karank in the topic "Coast Guard Overreach??". Karank states the the CG has a lot of money, has become a law enforcement arm of Big Brother, they do not want us around, we (small boaters) are just another pain, that the Coast Guard doesn't understand coastal water, and the average USCG is ignorant and useless of small boats, except a few. Karank....you are full of "krap"...I'll say it here, and I would say it to your face. And you are speaking as a "USCG X"??? I can only say that you must of had a bad tour of duty, or maybe separated from the service early. With that kind of attitude, I am glad you never served with me.
I am very sure that the Coast Guard is fully proud to serve the boating public...sail boats, power boats, or whatever watercraft you are on. They are not loaded with money, and law enforcement has been a part of the Coast Guard since its start as the Revenue Cutter Service. I base my comments in over thirty years of service in the Coast Guard (4 years at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy and over 26 years as an officer). My specialty was operations ashore and afloat. Our Coasties do a superb job serving the boating public. I was Commanding Officer of Coast Guard Station Atlantic City, NJ, in my early career. At the end of my career, I had been Group Commander of Group Mobile, AL which included 5 Coast Guard Stations, 5 patrol boats, and 3 aids to navigation units from Mississippi to the Florida Panhandle (adjacent to Sector St Pete). I have also served three years as Deputy Chief, and Acting Chief, of Law Enforcement for the 7th Coast Guard District. I have nine years onboard Coast Guard cutters, and was Commanding Officer of a 210 foot cutter, CGC VIGOROUS, that patrolled from the Gulf of Maine and Georges Bank to offshore the Bahamas, Cuba, DomRep, Haiti,Puerto Rico, Mexico, and throughout the Gulf of Mexico. I know the professionalism and level of training that our Coast Guard men and women demonstrate and excel in.
I look forward to assisting Chief, in any way, to ensure we continue to have Everglades Challenges. If Tribers are truly an expert in their watercraft, and follow all the WaterTribe event rules and checklist, than there is no doubt everyone will be safe. A boat may be damaged due to unforeseen circumstances, but following the rules and checklist will result in a safe departure and return to shore!
Coast Guard and WaterTribe
(18 posts) (12 voices)-
Coastie
MemberPosted 4 years ago # -
It's great to have an experienced Coast Guard member participating in this group. Some unfortunate comments have been made in the heat of passions over recent events, and I understand your feelings about that. It's worth pointing out that others have thanked the Coast Guard for their service and taken responsibility for Watertribe's role in the situation. I hope that we can move forward with a positive relationship.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Badger
MemberCoastie, thanks for joining the discussion! Can you speak to the legality of ordering all Watertribers off the water after rescuing a few of them? No other recreational users of the waterways were affected in like fashion. Would membership in a group of over 100 boats be enough to support a claim of "mainfestly unsafe voyage" or similar terminology?
As I posted in another thread, if the CG wanted Tribers off the water, use the Race Manager to communicate with the entrants. But once you terminate the event, what authorizes the CG to detain every single individual skipper? It appeared they did so based on identifying skippers wearing dry suits, having PLBs and other safety equipment and operating a small craft.
Understanding the decisions made and respecting the the rights of citizens should be part of moving forward with a positive relationship.
Posted 4 years ago # -
BeastOarman
MemberCoastie, congrats on your trip and thanks for the photos. You make excellent points and obviously speak from a solid background of experience and knowledge. All of us thank you and everyone who's been in the CG for your selfless dedication. Most of us have had nothing but positive interactions, and we and our families are reassured by the CG presence.
Badger, on a weekend where the CG rescued many Tribers, it seems a bit over-reactive to make so much of the incident you mention. Many of us share your fierce independence. But perhaps this time let's back up, calm down and give everyone the benefit of the doubt rather than escalate any tensions.Posted 4 years ago # -
PrivateHam
MemberI would never have considered joining these challenges if the Coast Guard was not there to save my butt if and when something goes wrong. Having a button I can push that results in a rescue allows my family to accept these events as well. A healthy debate about boundaries is fine, but this is not the forum to disparage the ones that can and will save our lives. Thanks for posting, Coastie.
Posted 4 years ago # -
PainenDias
BlockedI love discussions like this one. You catch the ebb and flow of the emotions and the circumstances. We can all take our experiences and educate ourselves to be more proactive with regard to what we do when on the water and make the Tribe even stronger. These forums are a panorama of experience, and within our ranks we have "true experts" with real-world knowledge that far exceeds the drivel that I so typically post for entertainment value. This is the time we need to listen to our "experts" who are out there on the water in these events but who seldom post.
But then, let's not stifle a good "pithy" observation! It took Karank's comment to shake Coastie into posting and we are richer for it. A lunge, a riposte, and an apology from two of our own "experts" but with decidedly different spheres of experience. Let's keep it rolling.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Ridgerunner
MemberHaving dealt with the Coast Guard and local officers during ECs, I can tell you that the Coasties are professional and knowledgeable. I am an Assistant Fire Chief with 42 years of service, and they act in the interest of public safety with the information they have.
The local water cops, on the other hand, need to learn about sailboats, rules of the road, and the law.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Iszatarock
MemberCoastie,
I am also guilty of a somewhat desparaging remark of saying that that the CG made some mistakes though my main point at the time was that we should stop bashing the CG. I'm sorry about that.
In a calmer place now, I can't think of any mistakes they made. As RR says, the local cops/lifeguards may have been endangering folks by approaching small boats at high speed.
But can you clarify what the order was and what the appropriate response should have been? I heard that WTs were ordered to seek immediate protected shore and get off the water. Later I heard that we were ok to go to CP1. I never heard an "All Clear." I'm sure the CG doesn't expect that we're still out on a protected beach somewhere.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Badger
MemberBeastOarMan... I tried like the dickens to write in an transparently positive and forthright way. I used no disparaging terms, and merely requested clarification of legal points, or the explanation of a major decision. I thanked Coastie for writing, I used terms such as "understanding" and "respecting". Coastie is a phenomenal resource to facilitate "moving forward with a positive relationship", because he has been in many leadership positions within the CG, and is a small boat sailor.
He has also dedicated his life to protecting Americans and their freedoms. I think he would appreciate us doing the same. And during the events, the first responders were fellow 'Tribers. They stabilized the situation, and communicated effectively with the USCG. Their equipment and skills kept the unfortunate from suffering permanent harm, drugs and alcohol played no role... Other than the absence of a filing (the MEP), no serious harm was done! WTs are the epitome of what the CG wants in its boaters, yet all WTs had their freedoms restricted because a few members of the group had difficulty.
If this was an emergency, and the order temporary, then that should have been clear. And as Iszatarock points out, this emergency has not yet been formally lifted. If this was punitive, then the termination of the event made that point. But the implementation of authority appeared draconian, and based on faulty logic ("deteriorating conditions.") Americans questioning authority and standing up for their rights is called patriotism, and is NOT inflammatory. It is as responsible as improving our craft, our skills, and our Tribe.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Badger
MemberThis is a post (not mine) off SA: "For those that don't know, I was there on the beach standing next to Chief when he was informed of the termination of the event and there throughout the afternoon as events unfolded. One of the issues with the SPOT device, is that even in the event the tracks did come through on the Tracker Map, the USCG would not have been satisfied. As we all know, the SPOT devices only show where the vessel is and not necessarily where the captain or crew are.
I am personally looking into the use of something like the Delorme inReach Explorer to address another issue. The inReach provides all the same tracking options the SPOT offers, however it also allows for 2-way communication. This piece of equipment would've helped save a lot of time verifying individuals were on land and out of harms way. Currently, their is no way for Race Management to get in-touch with participants and the Delorme could help address the communication issue."
Next, by Estar (Evans Starzinger), a post regarding the desire of USCG wanting AIS on every single vessel on US waters: Their objective is real time tracking of all vessels in U.S. waters, and storing their tracks "forever". They have a private contractor well funded to pursue and set-up exactly that for them, who is currently data warehousing all existing ais signals for them. They have an act of congress which they interpret as giving them the authority to do exactly this.
What I find concerning is using a few "rescues" of a few superbly prepared boaters as a method to begin to require instant two-way communication between race organizers and entrants. (Actually, from what we know, the Coasties brought the mariners to shore, after Watertribers rescued them.) Imagine: next year you are flying down the coast and miss your urgent text from Chief. Because you fail to respond within the allotted half hour, you are penalized in the finish standings. I thought we did these races to get away from electronics and instant communication.
This year, through careful paperwork and heroic efforts, race management contacted all the shore contacts and effectively managed a feat of organizational prowess which did them proud: confirming the location and status of nearly 200 people spread over, what, 300 square miles? Most of them before the sun went down. And why? Because a few had to call for help. These are skippers of small boats, well prepared to signal for help and survive until help gets there, or in many cases, self rescue without assistance. Having instant communications with all entrants has never been a requirement of any sailboat race I've ever been part of, and insisting on it this time will establish a precedent.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Iszatarock
MemberCool, Badger! The revision works nicely.
I'm not so against the idea of some form of race management-to-participant communication. But requirements for instantaneous or 1/2 hour responses seems too strong to me, too. Maybe I missed those thoughts as serious suggestions. I did see them in expressions of ways to turn what might be a good idea into something pretty awful. Again, exaggerating an idea to show the danger of going too far is one thing. As a means to denigrate an idea or the person who suggested it, isn't particularly useful, or nice.
I like that idea of "getting away from it all." But for that, I'm planning to sail to Key Largo on my own when the waterway is not so full of crazy Watertribers. During the EC, I like having some friendly folks around.
Posted 4 years ago # -
NoahColumbus
MemberHello, I am a new member and have been learning more about the water tribe and your incredible adventure races. I have been building small boats over the last twenty years and had deceided to build one very special sailing kayak for this race, she is a 20 foot single round bottom with 16 foot ama's and probably around 120 sq. ft of sail. I am also refinishing a friends 21 ft kayak, also with 16 ft amas, its a a double, I am gonna super charge it with around 130 Sq. ft of sail. They both carry a large amount of gear. I have been working on them for the last 6 months, I will probably need another 7 or 8 months to complete them ( I could post pics If any body wants me to), and was planning to attend the 2016 Everglades Challenge. Thanks to the Coast Guard for all that they do, God only knows how many sailors have been saved over the many years by the brave men, and now women that serve. I was attracted to this race for the freedom of it all. I sail lakes here in Tennessee and love carrying lots of gear for a couple of weeks at a time with lots of camping and hiding from the rat race. I would lose interest in this race very quickly if the Coast Guard, local goverment or any other government enity, paid by our tax money, tries to control this race. The Coast Guard is a volunteer force, paid by us to do a job and to not over step. I think you guys have gone the extra mile to ensure that each sailor has the saftey gear needed to provide protection. The Coast Guard did there job , as they always do so well, now back off. I think the race is perfect the way it is. I understand the risks, and if I get hurt in the process, its my call. I am looking forward to meeting all you incredible people next year for the 2016 Everglades Challenge.
Posted 4 years ago # -
danceswithmullet
MemberWell said Coastie. The Coast Guard picked up the non experts and probably smelled a larger CF brewing. This Cluster lies squarely on the shoulders of those who misrepresented their abilities. The conditions on Tampa Bay were by no means extreme. This was one of the mildest ECs so far. No cold fronts and the worst was south of Cape Sable, But typical so no surprise there. A few inexperienced folks ruined it for the rest. The Coast Guard called it as they saw it. I don't blame them for making their call for cancelation. DWM
Posted 4 years ago #
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