Class 7- The Unlimited Class recommendation discussion.

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Class 7- The Unlimited Class recommendation discussion.

(18 posts) (14 voices)

Started 6 years ago by JollyRoger
Latest reply from JustAnotherSailor

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JollyRoger
Member

I would like to offer up an idea for an unlimited class which will include many of our crusing friends with larger boats.

Basicly an Unlimited class that's only real rule is no motors.

In order to allow these new boats they also do not need to launch from the beach. They would be allowed to start at the boat ramp at the same time as the standard launch (aprox. a 8 mile or so disadvantage) or have the option to anchor near the start line(in order to join in on the fun and comradery) but would have to wait either for all boats to clear the beach or a one or two hour delay to allow smaller boats to launch and clear the area.

The unlimited boats would then launch and more than likely clear tampa bay about the same tim as all the smaller boats.

I could see all sorts of our adventure friends joining in on the fun....Farriers, catamarans, etc., basicly an unlimited amount of larger boats that will add to our numbers and fun and safety as long as no motors are used.

No longer will you have to rough it if that is not what you are into, For instance I could take my 20' standing headroom catamaran with head, galley, and sleeping quarters set up with twin mirage drive units or rowing station. My wife could join me in basic confort...a head, a kitchen, and a twin bunk. She could become an adventure woman just like the other tribe, just in a slightly "less rough" way. Although she may have to be expected to help leg power the boat up to check points. Plus if we are becalmed for any linght of time life will suck.

I believe this is a class that we have been missing out on. It will not take away from the hardcore straight paddlers or anyone else's class and will add greatly to the Tribe. Those that have wanted to join will now be able to join us in their given craft as long as it is engineless. No limit on size or crew.....kids ok to join us or even crews going for the win....all they must do is no engine and must be able to reach the check points.

I would like to open this up for dicussion as long as Steve "Chief" thinks that this may be possible. Steve, If you could please respond as soon as you see fit....even deleting this thread if you see fit...I just wanted to offer up the idea. I think it could be nice.

Respectfully, Jolly

Posted 6 years ago #
danceswithmullet
Member

Just my humble opinion but the beach start is what makes this such a unique event. Anyone can sail a cruising boat down the coast, the filters are what add to the challenge and you can build a comfortable boat if that is what you want. You can make a cabin on a sea pearl if you don't want to build from scratch, the possiblities are endless and still have it beach launchable. We already have an overcrowding problem at check points and larger vessels would only add to the problem. DWM

Posted 6 years ago #
JollyRoger
Member

Channing, I can not....not agree with you. And you made fingermullet look quite comfortable. And I suppose I could figure out how to beach launch a 1000 plus lb. boat. I could see myself launching something as large as a Farrier 22, its possible. So personally I think I could play within the current rules except for maybe crew size. Limit is two except for the Class6 outrigger canoe. I could see a crew of 3-4 on a F22. 3 race buddies or a couple with older grown children wanting to share a sailing adventure. I saw this in the R2AK where there were many mixes just like the one's I just mentioned. (3 male friend ages-72,46-26. 2 girls, one guy-all sailing friends. Older fellow with daughter and fiance. All sorts of interesting mixes.) I know that I would very much enjoy teaming up on a larger Tri with you and Mead or Chief. Or any number of current watertribers.....My dream list would be long!!!

And I like your piont about the boat choice and agree, possibilities are endless and I can see new designs being built just for the EC and a larger crew although beach launching puts limits on what is possible and folks wanting to launch larger boats from the beach. I must say that if I did not have to beach launch then I would not. Not Whinning!!!, please do not get me wrong. Maybe beach launching is the ulitmate filter and the answer is in boat design?.......hmmmm,

Overcrowding? Yes I suppose that is the result of advancing your sport and event and a issue to deal with.

Posted 6 years ago #
Coastie
Member

Have to agree with danceswithmullet. I see the Everglades Challenge as a "challenge"...not so much a race. I enjoy the challenge of roughing it, camping, paddling when there isn't any wind, some surf and storm, critters here and there, uncertain temperatures, filters, groundings, muck, mud, fog, departing from a beach, landing on a beach, etc. Plenty of other events for the cruising large boaters who don't want to rough it. If you need a head or galley, you don't need to be in a "challenge". And that is all I have to say about that:)

Posted 6 years ago #
MicroTom
Key Master

There are pros and cons to any race format so I will just put out there what I am thinking.

Pros of a big boat cruiser class

- More exposure for WaterTribe

- A potential additional revenue stream to help keep WaterTribe going. Possilby fund other expedition type events.

- Speaking as someone who showed up to sail the EC and ended up more interested in paddling I think this could be a way to get cruisers more interested in small boats. How long could a cruiser really stand listening to the stories about the Wilderness Waterway and Florida Bay without wanting to try it one day?

- Crew's of more than 2 would be possible.

Cons of a big boat cruiser class

- More people can mean more chaos

- Cruisers would likely have to dock at ENP HQ or somewhere in Everglades City and hoof it to CP2

- Not sure what the laws are in the Keys for big boats anchoring off shore outside the Bay Cove. There are a lot of boats out there but someone would have to verify the rules.

- 300 mile course seems short for big fast boats. I have always thought an extra check point in Key West for any boat capable of finishing in under 48 hours would be a good way to extend the adventure.

- How would cruisers haul out. Would they sail back?

Some other thoughts

- A cruiser class may need to anchor off shore but come into a check point. Cruisers could be mandated to have a small dingy, paddleboard, kayak, or other small craft to get to their boat at the start and to paddle into check points.

- I think there is plenty of room in the keys. There is the Bay Cove, Pelican, & Sunset. We haven't really even spilled over into the Key Lime Sailing Club a little to the south. Plus cruisers could stay on their boats.

Posted 6 years ago #
Karank
Member

Interesting idea, and workable. My concern is total numbers. When is too many too much? I think we saw a result of "growth pain" raise it ugly head in 2015. The "beach" is full now. No opinion, just questions pop up when a significant change is proposed.

Posted 6 years ago #
Chief
Coastal Vagabond

I think WaterTribe needs to stick with idea of providing an Expedition-Style Adventure Race for small boats. The beach launch filter has worked out well but still allows some fairly large boats into the challenge. In fact, I really miss the filter at the old CP1 which required the mast to be lowered and then raised. I love the folks at the new CP1, but I miss the filter.

Another thing to consider is that there are already several large boat regattas. These large boat sailors can also transfer those skills to small boats if they want to. Take a look at COJones. He's racing a 95 foot yacht across the atlantic and when he is done he will be doing the BBC2015 in a 21 foot sailing kayak.

Finally, we might be too big already. I am considering a 100 boat limit for EC2016 although turnout for 2016 might be way down. We only have 33 so far.

Posted 6 years ago #
stripbuilder
Member

It would be interesting to add an unlimited class for the EC. However, it could work if their schedule was different. Instead of having their set up, inspections, and captains' meeting on Friday and starting on Saturday: have their setup, inspection, and captians meeting on Saturday after the others start and then they start on Sunday. Their awards ceremony and meal could even be a day or two before the normal EC one. Give them five days to get to Key Largo.

Posted 6 years ago #
Bermudaboy
Member

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With that said Chief, I'm signin up now!

Posted 6 years ago #
Ekim
Member

While creative, I think that the Chief will have to be a little conservative this next year as a lot of eyes will be on the EC2016. I would think the goal this next year would not to have a repeat of this year.

Also, the EC has continued to grow at a healthy pace and I don't know if making it an every thing for every one event would be a good idea. But hey, if we are going to be creative then I think concierge service at the check points and glamping is in order.

Posted 6 years ago #
Hollywood
Member

JollyRoger wrote:

I would like to offer up an idea for an unlimited class which will include many of our crusing friends with larger boats.

Basicly an Unlimited class that's only real rule is no motors....

Hey Jolly,

I am with you! It would be a great adventure for sure. I know my wife would love to participate if we had that as an option. I am sure, several others would love to join in on the fun, but may not be as adventurous to do the event in it's current form.

Based on the previous comments, maybe this is something that becomes it's own event and just runs parallel rather than interfere with the EC itself. Depending on the amount of interest, it could be quite the event!

v/r,
Butch

Posted 6 years ago #
CrazyRussian
Member

I think that exclusivity of Watertribe events already span off several different races and raids of similar format for boats not fitting into original filters.
I think it is more healthy process than trying to fit everyone into Watertribe. It means more races for us, small boat owners :)
I would acctually prefere to have a tendency toward smaller boats. Watertribe is big already..

Posted 6 years ago #
JollyRoger
Member

Good stuff.

More thought....I know that there was a great deal of issues with beach launching the larger boats. Causing all sorts of beach access issues etc. Would a water start be a good option in order to lessen the stress on the beach overcrouding, officers, race management?

Tom, good idea about sailing back, only 2-3 days is short for the larger boats so that could extend it out to a week.

Posted 6 years ago #
PrivateHam
Member

Slightly off-topic, but as far as overcrowding goes, it could be interesting to require OFC or BBC as a qualifier for the EC. Previous completions of the EC would qualify as well. This would expose more folks to the other races and increase attendance in the smaller races. Hopefully, once exposed to the course, more folks would repeat those races in the future. I have done the last two OFCs and loved the course but would have been nice to have more boats out there.

Posted 6 years ago #
JustAnotherSailor
Member

I was at the start of the R2AK several weeks agao. Personally, I was taken aback by the large boats that were entered. However, after watching the race from my computer the R2AK is a completely different race/challenge than the current Witertribe events. 3 weeks after the event start only 4 boats have completed the race at this time, Jolly Roger and the Soggy Beavers and two beach cats. Only large sailing vessels were able to challenge the narrows at will and make it through in a reasonable amount to time.

So we're really talking about two different challanges. Currently the Choco mud beach, Flamingo and Florida Bay will keep our fleet pretty small.

I am planning on completing in the R2AK next year. Currently I own a Hobie 18 and a B&B Princess 22' sharpie. The cold water is quite a formitable challenge especially since I live in the Fl Keys. The sharpie is a well built and protected design but going to weather in the conditions expericenced this year in the narrows I question the design's ability to progress through the Narrows. Once through the rapid river both would be good designs in their own rights.

Anyway, as I get older it maybe nice to want to still compete in the EC but in a more civil design like the Princess. If everything has it's own class.... why not. Draft is still the major consideration.

Cheers

Posted 6 years ago #
lugnut
Member

A slightly different perspective. I'm not sure the EC course is suitable for larger boats -- after all the filters are tilted toward small craft. DWM has recounted taking a large monohull through Stump Pass but the idea of someone without thorough local knowledge running that inlet at night in rough conditions in a sizeable boat is chilling. The bigger the boat, the more problems if it gets out of control. Or imagine a strong, gusty wind and trying to get from the ICW into Cape Haze. Not hard to see how a swirly puff hitting a tall rig could overpower the crew trying to row/scull/paddle it in. Draft could also be a problem, most of the larger boats are going to draw more than 12 inches. Choko Bay could be, um, exciting, and they might wind up so far from the beach that getting in through the mud will be difficult. Might be impossible at low tide (so maybe that's an extra handicap for the big boats?). Getting a big boat up the Flamingo Channel in a strong NNE wind and out again in a strong SSW wind without a motor might not be possible. Nor getting across Florida Bay with any significant draft. Not that it wouldn't be fun to see a cabin trimaran charging down Twisty Mile.

As for Chief's nostalgia for the old CP1, as someone who went aground too many time to count, crashed repeatedly in the mangroves, took wrong turns at night, and throroughly cussed it every time going in and out, I kinda miss it too.

Posted 6 years ago #
MicroTom
Key Master

Just noticed Grand Tours (old CP1) sold in December of 2014. Wonder if it's under new management?

Posted 6 years ago #
JustAnotherSailor
Member

Lugnut has is correct. We can have a new Class 7 but could they actually compete in the EC in it's current or pastcourse configuration. Of course is you allow a larger class will it restrict future course considerations to allow their partisapation.

Posted 6 years ago #

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