Talking About Adventure In Small Boats
Sundance
Member
I'm looking for some advice on Hobie Adventure Islands and Tandem Islands. How does the Tandem Island handle with only one person n the boat? Has anyone done the Nightmare and Broad Creek in an AI? AI ot TI as a solo boat for the EC? Any recurring malfunctions on either boat?
Jim
Jim, I finished the NCC2011 solo in a TI 3rd overall. DogsLife was 2nd in a AI and he won the EC class 5 last year with TideTraveler right behind him in a AI. The problems that I had has now been fixed on 2011 and newer models which was the stow and go rudder. The new style when it kicks up you can still steer because it goes straight back. Old style kicks up at 45 and steering is impossible until you get it back down. Also a new mod is the mast support welded in two locations instead of one. I have not heard of a new one failing yet. I saw two of the old style get ripped out by heavy weather and that was Pelican and BlackwaterBob. You will be able to get a lot of info on these because there are alot being used in challenges. One last pointer is to put foam in the seat handels. Water will get shot straight up your sleeve in waves if you don't. They are very good boats, especially summer time have fun boats. Pedaling is great, paddling is more difficult. I personally like the TI better than the AI even when solo because the rear seat is much dryer than the front and you can carry more stuff although it is heavier by around 80 lbs.
Roger
Hi Jim,
You probably know that 3 AIs finished in the top 8 in the 2012 EC. The AI is a very reliable boat, although it is a wet ride. Owners continue to add their DIY accessories. Hakas are the most important DIY item. http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=37645&start=0 DIY splash guards cut down on the wet ride. http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=45924
The Tandem is a much larger boat. I think it is past it's initial problems. It can be sailed solo without problem. It is a significantly drier ride than the AI. It is also a much larger boat, which may cause problems simply getting it to and from the water. It depends upon your physical abilities. I own an AI and have no interest in a Tandem; however, most Tandem owners seem to be very happy with them. Dogslife used a Tandem in his first EC and DNF. Last year he switched to an AI and finished 2 or 3 overall.
To my knowledge, no one has ever taken an AI/Tandem through nightmare (I wonder why they would want to?)
Keith
OK since my name came up a few times, I guess I need to put my two cents in:
I own both a TI and AI. I sailed the TI Solo for a long time. In the 2011 EC we had strong 30 knot head winds and I peddaled non-stop for two days. That set off my kidneys and I had to drop out. Most people think the size is a advantage. You can fit everything you want on the boat. Solo in head winds or no wind this becomes a liability. TI is faster than a AI. I had a tough time keeping up with TI's this NCC.
For the 2011 NCC and 2012 EC, I switched to the AI. I sail that boat 90% of the time now and she has quite a few miles on her now. Yes you sit in a puddle. in 2012 EC I lived in my dry suit. Weight is critical.
What ever boat you get use a trailer. My TI I bought used from a man that car topped. One summer was enough for him...
Sundance
Member
Thanks for the informaton. Still a hard decision. I can get a good deal on a new TI. The boat will mostly be used solo. I like the advantage of more capacity and speed and maybe staying a little bit drier with the TI. But in bad conditions pedaling the larger boat into the wind is a disadvantage. Maybe the best idea is to get the solo boat for solo use?
Jim
Jim,
Here is a hobie forum thread started by a guy who bought 2 AIs, 1 for him, 1 for his girlfriend. The girlfriend did not use hers much, so he sold 1 AI & bought a tandem. The thread tells the story and various people chime in.
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=41893&hilit=tandem&start=0
Keith
Jim, those 3 AIs were manned by very competitive people--Dogslife, TideTraveller, and AhMaChamee. Both Dogs and AhMaChamee had done the EC previously. TideTraveller, aka Josh Morgan, is a super nice kid and a fireman. He keeps himself in great shape. He lives in S FL and did our casual Chok to Flamingo trip with us last Jan. You can read about that trip at http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=7276&start=180 Scroll down until you come to "Chokoloskee to Flamingo, Jan 16-23, 2012" So, TideTraveller was prepared to have a great, rookie EC. He has since sold his AI, purchased a sit-on-top 21" x 18' kayak w/ 1 meter sail to do this year's EC in Class 1.
The two Tandems were 1st timers. One was doing quite well until his mast-well broke at the x-bar near Ponce de Leon Bay, 25 mi out of Flamingo. He was done for the race. The second tandem was piloted by a young couple doing the EC for the first time. The winds during last year's EC were the worse ever--which made it ideal for the AIs, but tough on the tandem rookies. Hopefully, Hobie has put that Tandem mast-well problem behind them.
Keith
Islander
Member
Pardon the lengthy post, but you might find some of this helpful. I get out at least two days a week and sometimes three. Even now during cold weather I’m sailing just as much as I did this summer. Great fun and I spend a lot of time experimenting with various aspects of the Hobie products.
I bought an Adventure Island last year. Very shortly afterwards, I bought a Tandem Island. Both boats are 2012 models and feature roughly the same design and assembly.
I rarely use the AI any longer. Great boat and other than the tub of water you sit in (no problem in the warm months) I have zero complaints about it. The TI, however, is just as easy to sail solo and offers some big advantages, as some have pointed out here, in the area of payload capacity, sailing speed and the ability to take another person with you.
There is a common complaint that I’d like to address, as I think it turns out to be far less of a problem with the boat and more a problem with the user. The first time I took my TI out solo, the wind was exceptionally brisk. Gusting to about 35 MPH and steady to at least 20 MPH. Sitting in the rear seat, I launched and before I could get underway with the Mirage Drive the wind pushed the bow downwind. Normally I’d just start pedaling and push the rudder over and quickly come about. Not this time, however. Nothing I could do would bring the boat around. I struggled with it for about 15 minutes and decided that I’d have to make landing downwind and then figure out how to either get the boat turned back into the wind, or get a vehicle down there to retrieve it.
As it turns out, I was doing two things wrong and once I fixed those two things, the boat behaved and pedaled much more like the AI. First, the longer and higher hull offers the wind so much more force to act upon that trying to steer the boat in heavy wind without having the centerboard deployed is almost impossible. But drop the board and suddenly the steering characteristics change completely. Now the board helps to prevent sideslip in heavy wind as the wind doesn't find it nearly as easy to just push the bow around.
The next thing regards trim. In the AI most of the weight is just aft of the boat centerline. In the TI sailed solo from the rear seat, most of the weight falls well aft of the boat centerline. This is exacerbated if you have much gear in the tankwell. The nose rides high, offering the wind more surface to act on and pretty soon the rudder is unresponsive and pedaling requires far more effort.
Since I’ve begun deploying the centerboard 100% of the time (provided I have the depth to do it) and moving some gear to the forward seat for better overall trim, I find that my TI paddles and pedals on par with the AI. I don’t feel I’m giving up anything and I have the ability to haul more gear, under more sail (and more speed) and carry a passenger if needed.
The only nod I’d give to the AI, which I still enjoy although seldom use, would be in a situation where I might have to man-haul the boat over shallow mud flats or across obstructions, paddle for many miles without the aid of the Mirage Drive, or didn’t have a boat ramp to launch from. This is where the lighter weight of the AI would be a plus, and I as understand it, where some of the Watertribe courses might favor it over the TI.
Otherwise, once on the water, a little extra weight is of no consequence and can be beneficial to some degree. I find no difference in the durability and reliability of the two and if I was limited to just one, I’d buy the TI.
Because these are fairly expensive for “kayaks” (not very expensive for sailboats, however) I’d recommend visiting a dealer that has both available for demo and spend an hour in each. They’re both exceptional values considering all the things they’ll do and you’d be hard to pressed to go wrong with either.
kayakman7
Member
@islander
No one doubts that the ti carries more weight, sails a little faster, and handles nasty weather a little better. The main complaint we have with the ti is moving it with pedal power long distance. I have tried to pedal to windward and been almost unable to make headway. .5mph is heart breaking.
For me, the max sustainable speed under pedals is about 3 maybe 4mph (sustainable for me is same speed for 5+ miles) and it doesnt take much wind, waves, or, current to bring that to zero. I can't imagine moving a ti any distance without sailing it.
J
I have to agree with Kayakman, the TI is no fun peddalling into the wind. In 2011 I did very well in a TI being the first Island to check point one. But it took a lot out of me. It just makes sense that a TI has more weight and more windage.
If this year is a down wind race the TIs will blow my doors in. After the last two years I think that we are due for a nice weather race.
Islander
Member
I'm really shocked to hear this. My TI pedals easily into a strong headwind. No problem whatsoever, as long as I keep the centerboard down and trim the boat so the bow isn't lifted. The only trouble I ever had was prior to using the board and having poor trim which allowed the wind to push the bow around - now that was awful. I had almost no control. But I've learned how to thwart that now.
My TI pedals so well, in fact, that I've started using it for a lot of my fishing in place of my Pro Angler, a kayak that was made specifically for fishing and movitating in the conditions confronted by fishermen.
I suppose this is one more reason why interested buyers should spend some time in both the AI and TI in order to form their own opinions. Obviously I can only speak to my own experience in the 2012 and how I operate it. The next guy might have a totally different opinion or experience.
Islander
Member
The immediate problem when trying to rig a spinaker on the Islands series boats is that you negate the ability to furl the sail, unless you fabricate a roller tip for the mast top that continues to allow the mast to spin without winding up the lead for the jib.
It can certainly be done but would take a bit of thought of and creativity.
Beyond that, Hobie has taken some care to make sure the boat can't be easily capsized or overdriven by the sail plan. The mast has no stays so even though it's a good, thick, beefy unit, it flexes more than you'd think possible. Adding a jib in conjuction with the factory mailsail only puts more stress on the mast, and the hull port where the mast installs.
But it would definitely be an interesting and fun project to undertake.
kayakman7
Member
Feks,
i have a 250 sq ft and 100 sq ft spinnaker that i fly off my ti. While they do add lots of complications, both are fun and practical for everyday use. The ti is wide enough that a spinnaker pole isnt necessary, but could improve things slightly. For example, i might be able to sail wing a wing straight downwind.
J
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