http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/s720x720/536036_1972351205107_270177498_n.jpg
This rig will give you up wind performance and speeds that my competitors cry for.
Maddave
A 36 HP Sport with BOSS outriggers and a one meter Batwing
(31 posts) (8 voices)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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Hi PeesinBilgePump,
The rules are in and the Chief informed me that you need a double ama if the sail area exceeds 38 sq feet. You can use a 24 and a one meter with the boss and comply with the Chiefs rules. Total area will be 36. It will be fast and will sail closer to the wind.
What state are you in? Are you near NY? You can test one of my schooners with that set up.
Maddave
Posted 10 years ago # -
Dave,
Somewhat related to this topic... I have a 5M and a 36HP and I plan to rig both of them on my sailing canoe this summer.
Are there any advantages either way between schooner rig (5M in back) vs ketch rig (5M in front)? I suppose I could always try both and see which works better.
Ben
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hi Danceswithwaves
,The BSD schooner rig is a record breaker when it comes to speed and upwind performance. The Chief's new rules allow schooner rigs of a total sq footage of sail not to exceed 38 sq feet on a single boss outrigger. 38, 36 and 32 come with 2 reefs except for the 36 expedition which has one reef and the Chief has grandfathered that sail in.The 28, 24 and 18 have one reef. The one Meter has no reefs. All BSD sails except the 5 meter qualify for the class 3 sail as long as the total sail area does not exceed 38 sq feet. You can exceed the 38 sq ft if you use the double length amas like the Chief produces. BSD does not make a double length ama but we do make an extreme crosstube that supports the double length ama and the Chief has competed with the BSD extreme crosstube without any failures.
The Current Design Extreme measures 18 ft in length. It will be fast and responsive with a 24 main and a 1 meter[about12sq ft]=36 sq ft and it will comply with reefing rules.
With a double ama I would go with a 36 HP [has 2 reefs] and the 18 batwing [has 1 reef] =54 sq ft. and it will comply with reefing rules.
All details of sail demenions are located in the detail tap on http://www.baloghsaildesigns.com.
TO all Watertribers and Danceswithwaves. If you buy a BSD rig and you wish to modify or to create a new sailing package or test sail configurations, contact BSD and if possible I will try to arrange testing your combination of sails. MADDAVE ,
Posted 10 years ago # -
DogPaddler
MemberBen,
Is your leeboard fixed or movable and where is it in relation to the main? If it's fixed, the balance might move to lee helm with the 50 sail forward. I have 2 staggered leeboards on my kayak to compensate for the extra foresail.
My feeling would be to use the 36 as your headsail. Chris O might have some ideas on this also.
Brad
Posted 10 years ago # -
Macatawa already has longer amas that would allow the double sail rig in either configuration.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hi Macatawa,
I favor the 5 meter in the rear and the 36HP in the front. The 36 will act as a jib and help you sail closer to the wind. I would move the leeboard closer to the 5 meter mast when using a schooner. This will be closer to the center of effort of the sail.
Maddave
Posted 10 years ago # -
Assuming two paddlers in the Cruiser would allow up to 76 sqft with just the standard amas so your configuration would be fine.
However, your question brings up an interesting point. Many people have a BSD mainsail and a 1 meter PAS in a single paddler kayak/canoe. Also, there is now the option of the FEKS 1 meter and the BSD 1 meter. All three are intended as downwind rigs for class 1, but all three claim upwind performance. Let me think on this.
Posted 10 years ago # -
PeesInBilgePump
MemberI'm considering going Class 3 for the 2012 NCC100. I am pretty much working off of a clean slate. I currently possess a BSD 1sqm sail and can go with any number of configurations such as a single 36 HP sport (utilizing the 1sqm as a storm sail) or a schooner rig with the 1sqm and a BSD 24. I could go larger than 38 sqft should I either paddle a tandem or have full length amas, but those options exceed my budget.
From what I'm reading it sounds like class three should be split into two classes; class 3A (standard ama) and 3B (full length ama). I guess the paddling advantage goes to the kayak with standard amas (less weight and drag) and the sailing advantage goes to the kayak with more sail area and the full length ama?
Posted 10 years ago # -
DogPaddler
MemberChief,
Since many are questioning class 3 rules, I have another one.
The old rule stated sails, akas, amas, etc had to be stowed (in the boat or on the deck). The new rule says all sailing equipment including akas, amas, and sponsons must be removable and stowable in a sea worthy manner. Since one of your comments in the reefing rules thread referred to stowing all gear (in) the boat, can you clarify exactly what you mean?
If the answer is (in the boat), with the exception of the Kruger Canoes, most sea kayaks with bulkheads and hatches won't be able to get even a single sail and all the rest through a hatch, and would have to store the gear on deck.
Brad
Posted 10 years ago # -
danceswithwaves
MemberBrad,
Your point about sail rig stowage, also, has me concerned. It would be near impossible to stow all below decks along with your other gear. The various rig possibilities are intriguing but, I hesitate to invest until the matter is clarified. I believe a sail rig on a sea kayak that performs to all points of sail is a viable vessel. Can we make it an expedition vessel ? Or, are we forced to Krugers, XCR's and Tamanus ? Royd
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hi Watertribe,
Right Now BSD is running a spring sale of 10% off complete sail and Boss. If you buy a SECOND SAIL you will get 20% off only on the second sail. Take advantage and get your rig now. Practice early for the next Watertribe event. Sale end the 15 of April.
Maddave
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hi Uthred,
All you will need is a 1 meter mast, hullcup and deck mast partner.
I have a complete kit if you need it. .
Maddave
Posted 10 years ago # -
file://localhost/Users/davidvalverde/Desktop/4630_1160763132544_6983970_n.jpg
Here a BSD schooner .Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago #
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Posted 10 years ago #
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10526_1248288560625_1031767138_769970_1510409_n.jpg Schooner Great up wind performance.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago #
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Uthred
MemberHi Dave, I sent you an email earlier. I would like to know how close to windward you are able to sail with the schooner rig. Would the 14 foot amas be sufficient for the rig with the 3 larger sails in your picture? What size are those sails? What type of boat ( length etc ) is the larger sail configuration on, would that work on a Kruger DC?
Uthred
Posted 10 years ago # -
Some questions have been raised about class 3 rules regarding storage of the sailing kit. Nothing has changed in this regard to the class 3 definition.
First, the main hull(s) have to be kayaks or canoes. It is assumed that virtually all will be double outriggers or catamaraned. I suppose someone could have a single outrigger configuration, but I don't recommend it or see any advantage.
The entire sailing kit along with all the required equipment and normal food and water must be stowable in or on the boat in a seaworthy manner. What the heck does that mean? It means that when you take it all down and stow it for paddling, you still have a kayak or canoe capable of handling the prevailing conditions. This is a very tough requirement for a normal kayak unless you stick to a conservative rig which is the entent of class 3. It is also why boats in class 3 tend to be Kruger type canoes or XCRs and such.
A little history on this seaworthy requirement. In one of the Cross Florida races I had a class 3 boat setting up for the river sections. But he had a hard time leaving for the tighter river sections because his boat kept capsizing as he was trying to get in. He had so much gear on top of his decks that it was completely unstable. Of course it stabilized a bit once he got in but not enough. Lesson learned - rule adjustment.
In my opinion, if you can't get all your sail rig inside the boat along with all your gear, make some changes or switch to class 5. On deck the only things you should have are what your would normally have for any paddling trip.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hi Watertribe,
To make it easier for stowing sail gear inside your kayak. BSD can make shorter mast sections to fit inside your kayaks..
Maddave
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hi Watertribe,
I filmed this on Long Island.
I went out sailing a day after a hurricane to test the extreme boss. I lost my paddle on this test flight.
I recorded this with a video camera tied to the stern of a Long Haul Folding Kayak Mark 1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXONb7mP6ZM&list=ULFXONb7mP6ZM&feature=player_detailpage
This second video was shot at Sheepshead Bay NY . The wind was blowing about 20 knots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=ULGviLhAjNKsk&v=GviLhAjNKsk&feature=player_detailpage
Maddave
Posted 10 years ago #
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